“Inventing Gods” – Episode #49

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Have we invented God, or is it secularists who invent false gods—just as the ancients did—in their rejection of the true God? Mankind was made for truth, and are naturally disposed to seeking out God (Truth Himself).  Which is why even atheists invent [false] gods to satisfy this deep need.

AUDIO

15 COMMENTS

  1. The “Related Article’s section (just above this comments area) has 5 truly SOLID episodes/posts related to this episode. I suggest you watch each one. Seriously, they’re really good I’m not just saying that.

  2. Cal/Tim,
    A good show especially for the modern era substitute gods. The approach to science is for some like idolatry the scientific method is a new commandment.Tim I like your use of st Thomas pure reason. The Nazi scene Dr was Mengele a sadistic eugenics minded.Hitler though baptised Catholic was an atheist believing in the Darwinist approach The assent of man. Cal consider the question why would a universe create itself and something less complicated be unable to do so?
    Keep up the good work

  3. What I mean to say here is that there was a small group of greek philosophers who came up, from scratch, with the concept of The One, λόγος, and they were looked down upon for doing so because they were effectively rejecting the mainstream gods of the time. And then Judaism and Christianity came along and they were like “Wait a minute… This is it… This is what we were looking for.”

  4. As for the claim that you learn nothing about the universe through the bible,
    #The water cycle
    #Atoms
    #Building
    #Washing your hands
    #Earth is round and floats

    As for the Genesis thing,
    The moon is Mary and the Sun is Jesus.

  5. Oh, I see you addressed the Sun moon thing XD

    Also separating the dark from the light is the fall of the angels

  6. TheDRSophia  I admit that it’s been a while since I’ve read the bible but I really can’t remember putting it down once it was finished and thinking to myself “Well, now I understand God and atoms” I mean you can’t actually be telling me that one way to learn about atoms, the big bang theory and whatever else is by reading a book that was written thousands of years before any of these things had been discovered. I think what you’re saying is that there are some things written in the bible that you can now look at and go “Well, that part is clearly talking about atoms”

    As for the Genesis thing here is the full verse.

    And God made the two great lights,  the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night and the stars Genesis chapter 1 verse 16

    So here is a book authored by a God that makes a mistake that anyone living in that time would have made when they look at the two great “Light” in the sky because to be fair, the moon does look like a light and some versions of this verse use the word Luminary instead. Not one mention of the moon reflecting light from the sun. You can say al you want that the moon is mary or whatever but the book doesn’s say that, you have to put that in afterwards to make sense of it 🙂

  7. Cal
    Some people have an almost bible worship mentality. The bible is the work of some 40 odd authors over a time period greater than a millennium. It is written in various styles partly Historical,Legalistic,poetry etc. If you look at the burning scene what does not happen is that the bush is consumed by the fire Moses is attracted by the curious event. Now Moses would not ask why is the law of Thermodynamics being broken but he would know fire consumes leaving ashes.

  8. I believe there is no case, even when the life of the mother AND child is facing certain death, in which abortion is permissible. To allow such a decision places the value of one life above the other; no Good can be gained through evil (think of the “survivor’s guilt” the mother would face); and to make such a decision presumes the inadequacy(places limits on) of God’s love and mercy….it shows no hope or belief that God could work a miracle. I would advise against following any instructions, from a spiritual directors, to have an abortion in such a situation. It is nearly a scientific and medical impossibility for a pregnancy to threaten the life of the mother, to the degree of certain death, in our modern age of medicine. The only case I’ve heard of in which a pregnancy was rightfully “terminated,” is a case where the baby had already died and had become what is termed a “mummified fetus,” and for whatever reason the woman’s body did not terminate the “pregnancy.”

  9. CalKane TheDRSophia Funny opening to your comment, Cal 🙂   But….

    False premise and false expectation. Our knowledge of God didn’t come from the bible, it came from a very methodical oral tradition, and from sacred tradition. And the bible doesn’t declare itself as a science book or a book with all the knowledge of life.  So for you to say “the bible doesn’t do XYZ means its limited or flawed” actually says something bad about yourself, not the bible, because it shows your great error of understanding.

    REgarding Genesis: Your argument has no merit.  This is Jewish poetry, not a play-by-play, and it is allegorical by design.  You are no longer justified in using that text to justify an already flawed argument.  I gave you 3 examples of the bible exhibiting higher knowledge than ancient man possessed and you ignored it.  Which is ok. But then don’t press the same flawed argument yet again in the comments. 

    You are having an argument with yourself; you are pressing an argument that isn’t an argument. No matter what direction to take it, it will always be based on an erroneous understanding of the text, a flawed expectation of the text  (the text does not declare itself to be/do what you claim it should be/do), and a valuation that you treat as 100 but is actually zero.

  10. JediMasterTim CalKane TheDRSophia  Oh for sure the bible isn’t a science book, that’s why I push back so hard when people say you can gain an understanding of how the universe works from reading it. If people stop saying it, I stop talking about the bible altogether. To be  fair, it was Sophia that mentioned atoms and stuff in the bible I was just responding to that.

    “I gave you 3 examples of the bible exhibiting higher knowledge than ancient man possessed and you ignored it”

    I can’t ignore them if I don’t know what they are. If you give me the verses I can look at them and then maybe ignore them lol 🙂

  11. CalKane TheDRSophia Cal, I think you are being too nit picky about the moon and the sun. Technically the moon is a light, it is just not the source of its own light. But the bible does not say that God created two light sources. It only says he created two lights. Most of us would describe “a light” as an object that transmits light that illuminates. Although the moon does not emit its own light it does transmit light that illuminates the earth at night. It merely transmits reflected light rather than being the source of the light itself. Proof of this is that the earth would be darker without the moon to illuminate it at night. Therefore it is technically “a light” although not a source of light. Even with our advanced science we still use the words moonlight, moonlit,  light of the moon and the moon shines to describe the reflection of light from the moon that illuminates the earth at night.
    You can understand something of how the universe works from the bible. Just not to the same depth, degree or in the same manner as a science book. To say the bible gives absolutely no understanding of how the universe works is as erroneous as to say the bible gives us everything we need to know about how the universe works.
    The bible does reference some scientific facts that the writers could not have known merely by observation at that time.
    1. The first source of light. God said “Let there be light” and there was light but the sun was not created until later. Scientist now call this light Cosmic Background Radiation.
    2. The bible often describes the heavens as being stretched out or reaching out and  like a canopy or tent. Science today describes space/time like fabric. Also the stretching and reaching is a word picture of the expanding universe
    3. The bible describes the stars as singing. Scientists use the pulsating light and radio waves from the stars that have been converted to sound to understand the size and density of stars. They describe it as singing stars. When a star goes supernova, right before it explodes, there are vibrations that hum at about a middle C.
    4. It says that God weighed out the wind. Today we know that air has mass and weight
    .
    There are actually more but I will stop with these 4. Does this now make the bible a science book. No. But there are things in there that reference or speak to scientific knowledge that was beyond the writers at the time.
    “I mean you can’t actually be telling me that one way to learn about atoms, the big bang theory and whatever else is by reading a book that was written thousands of years before any of these things had been discovered.”
    Are you saying that atoms and the big bang etc. did not exist until they were discovered? No, they existed before we had knowledge of them or could prove them. So the bible could write about them thousands of years before they were discovered because they existed then. 
    Science is merely man observing the world around him and through repetition drawing conclusions from what has been observed. In science things change because new information emerges or we had to correct wrong conclusions. Science will always be subject to these types of changes and is only as reliable as the information and the conclusion. So to base the sum  total of all knowledge on science which has proven itself subject to flaws in both evidence and conclusion time and again to my mind is insufficient and foolish. Science is but one tool in the box of understanding. The bible describes another part of understanding and although it does reference some things of science it wasn’t written to function as science, it is about faith and about relationship. What is the relationship of the universe to/with the one who created it? So, when I read the bible will I walk away understanding everything about the universe and how it works? No. Can I understand some things? Yes.

    If you are working with a tool box with only one tool, science, you are not going to have all the evidence or information there is nor will you reach the right conclusions. You have limited yourself, Cal, by totally discounting certain tools believing that all tools must perform the same function for the same purpose as the one science tool. Different tools perform different functions for different purposes.  So too the things relating to science and the things relating to faith.

  12. Yes, Cal, you and I do have some business. LOL and I am indeed sharpening my sword so you better be on your toes.

    You are going to be at a disadvantage though if you are not up to speed on current events concerning abortion. Or more precisely current attitudes. So in the interest of fair play let me clue you in on the “Nobody thinks abortion is a good thing. Nobody says I like abortion” statement.

    “Abortion is good for you, your family and society. It’s a win, win, win.” Dr. David Grimes author

    Suggesting that abortion be “safe, legal, and rare,” and crowing that “no one likes abortion,” accomplishes nothing for women’s rights. Rather than trying to cozy up to the forced-birth camp, women who value their freedom should be proud to say that they like abortion, the one final, definitive instrument that secures our bodily autonomy.  I love abortion. I don’t accept it. I don’t view it as a necessary evil. I embrace it. I donate to abortion funds. I write about how important it is to make sure that every woman has access to safe, legal abortion services. I have bumper stickers and buttons and t-shirts proclaiming my support for reproductive freedom. I love abortion.” Jessica DelBalzo

    …if those 1.21 million abortions [performed every year] represent only the women who could access abortion financially, geographically or otherwise, then that number is too low. Yes, too low. If that’s the case, then what is an appropriate response? How do we best support women and their reproductive health? Do we dare admit that increasing the number of abortions might be not only good for women’s health, but also moral and just?….Aimée Thorne-Thomsen

    The face of the argument in favor of abortion has changed. It is no longer viewed as a necessary and regrettable evil in certain circumstances. Rather it is portrayed as a moral and social good, sometimes sacred in fact. It is now argued that it is a blessing, a grace and a gift and it is, in fact, the moral and spiritual higher ground.

    Just thought I would share that with you fyi so the next time we talk you will be better informed and not find yourself with a pocket knife up against a canon. LOL

    I also, I can clear up the life of the mother and child in equal eminent and immediate danger of death discussion but maybe I will save that for when we can debate.

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