Civilization – The Dialogue #61

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Catholic monarchy, or a secular society? What would the ideal civilization be? This episode begins our “Life on Trial” series, with Cal and Tim making their initial presentations about their ideal societies. We’ll also talk about a recent hate crime in Chicago that tells a disturbing story of where the culture has gone. This will be an important show, as it sets up the first phase of our “Life on Trial” series.

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12 COMMENTS

  1. Gents,

    A few thoughts regarding the disgusting torture and kidnapping of this white mentally disabled person…

    Cal, you made an astute observation. This was a political statement.

    One of the factors you guys didn’t mention was todays education system. Americans, like Australians (and probably every other majority European nation), have their histories lopsidedly demonised at schools.

    You are taught that American whites were brutal slave traders full stop. You are not taught about world slavery that existed from ancient times to this day and Muslim slavery which was far more brutal and prevalent until Christian Europeans largely ended it. You are not taught a tiny minority of whites in America owned slaves. You are not taught about the barbarism that goes on in places like Africa where villages are raped and pillaged and children are taken, drugged and groomed (after their families have been murdered) to be child soldiers.

    In Australia our schools gloss over the fact (that most) Aboriginals died because they didn’t have immunity to our diseases. They instead focus on the most horrific accounts they can find of British brutality, accounts I never verified because I wasn’t nearly as sophisticated as I am today as a teenager.

    I brought into the white guilt, hook, line and sinker, as a youth (and this did affect my soul, worldview and lifestyle choices). We also aren’t taught about the cannibalism and infanticide of the native Aboriginals, in the same way Americans aren’t taught about the barbaric aspects of Native American history. We instead portray them as angelic pagans and our British founders as the spawn of Satan period.

    My point is there is no perspective, context or balance given. Modern history is all about “evil whites.” Hollywood and its ilk constantly drum home “black slavery” themed films and tv shows to lay on this white guilt that our education system is giving us extra thick.

    The real agenda behind it all is to demonise all things Christian so that whites (Europe was the fortress of Christendom) will, as they have, instinctively reject everything that is Christian, especially Catholic, the most demonised part of Christianity because the Catholic Faith IS Christianity.

    Since “waking up” to me it’s only been a matter of when not if incidents like this and worse happen. Now that Europeans have largely rejected Christ and the Church and brought into cultural nihilism and sterile sex, we are becoming minorities in our own nations. Minorities in nations where we are institutionally being demonised.

    Christ said the way is narrow. So while I agree with you Tim that the left is the bigger threat at this time, I don’t see the right as offering any real solution. Classical atheists are fine as a minority in a Christian culture. An atheist and non traditional Christian majority in general equals despotism whatever way we slice it. The strongest nations then will be the most barbaric (following Darwin’s model) and they won’t leave anyone in peace.

    I am honestly as concerned about the non-(authentic)Catholic right as I am about the communist/Muslim left. Minus Christ we are reactionaries and we swing from one extreme to the other. We are either all mercy (fatalistic) or all justice (hell bent on revenge). We have no real grounding in universal (Catholic) truth i.e. reality. In truth, the Catholic Faith isn’t right or left. It’s straight (narrow) because it’s truth itself.

    Every nation does vary. I think America will ultimately clean its act up and find Christ again, probably after much suffering. The majority of white Americans won’t buy into the race baiting.

    Nevertheless America and Americans need to be humbled. The pro-homosexual lifestyle virtue signalling needs to stop (Trump draped himself in a rainbow flag just to get elected, not because of God’s covenant with Noah, but because he was virtue signalling to the LGBTQ agenda). The contraceptives, fornicating, pornography, divorce and abortion needs to stop. The ingrained cultural anti-Catholic nihilism needs to stop.

    Other majority European nations like Germany in particular, I see doubling down on its evils until Armageddon arrives. Germany is already too far gone.

    I’m not God. This purely my own personal assessment.

    I won’t comment on the cases each of you present, (about to watch that now), until you and Tim have had a chance to defend them next week. There is no need to put the cart before the horse! 🙂

    A blessed week to you both!

    Mat

  2. There’s some truth in what you just said about demonising Europeans to demonize christianity. Nobody is perfect. Even European Christendom is still in need of redemption. I don’t think white people or western civilization should be defensive about their crimes. People need healing. There’s a lot of things that are kept a secret i.e the crimes of United States and France in the Pacific during the cold war is so unbelievable and inhumane. What do you do? You forgive and you move on. One of the reasons why I don’t like talking about politics is because it brings out the worst in people if youre just looking out for your own interest. It is literally antigospel message.

  3. AFlowerofStTherese 
    Personally speaking I couldn’t care less about race and see it as a social construct. I don’t believe in Darwin’s theory of evolution as previously stated. Science and scientists are fallible especially when it comes to historical theories. The Catholic Faith is infallible.

    In saying that, the Church respects aspects of evolution theory and I have no qualms with Catholics who choose to believe in it within a Catholic framework.

    Yes of course every nation has committed evils. The point was “white” evils are continually highlighted and emphasised while the glories and achievements of Catholic history and culture, which transcended far beyond Europe, is generally ignored or demonised.

    You are free to disagree with the observation. But there is no question in my mind Europeans and European history is lopsidedly demonised to attack Christianity. That’s the real agenda behind it.

    The Muslim slave trade was far worse than America’s ever was and we learn nothing about it. The savagery found in regions of Africa trumps the treatment of blacks in America at the height of slavery 1000 fold. We learn all about Hitler and the Nazis while ignoring Mao’s reign of terror in China in which he oversaw the slaughter of 10’s of millions of his own people, etc. The list goes on and on and on.

    Revisionist and selective history is used to attack the Church and it’s been particularly successful since the first Protestant revolution.

    It’s no coincidence so many misconceptions about Catholic history in particular exist. I never said Catholics or European history is squeaky clean. European history since the first Protestant revolution has been increasingly unstable. We do have much to repent for. Chinese communism is a European import for example. The hands of Europe isn’t clean. Our falling away from the Church has hit the whole world hard and it’s only going to get worse. Remove the Church and Catholic history from the equation though and what would world and European history look like these past 2000 years?
    Am I blaming outsiders for this “falling away” the Bible prophesied would come? No, of course not. Catholics are accountable for their actions and that includes our falling away from the Faith. If we were being faithful to Church teaching Catholicism would be thriving in the world today thanks to our birth rates alone. It is not because too few of us are actually Catholic anymore. I’m not pointing fingers. I’m just stating the on the ground reality at this time. Statistically there is little difference between baptised Catholics and pagans/secularists anymore. Our divorce and birth rates are similar. Our political and social views are similar. Many baptised Catholics are pro-homosexual marriage, use contraceptives, fornicate etc, without conscience. Many of us don’t even believe in the Faith anymore. We are in free fall at this time as a collective.

    The tide will turn, sooner or later, it is written.

    I’m amused that you see these observations as anti-gospel! hahaha

    No one has ever accused me of being “anti-gospel” before. There is a first time for everything. Thanks for the laugh! hahaha

  4. mat_y AFlowerofStTherese 
    Hi brother/sister, 
    I meant to say modern politics is anti-gospel message. That statement wasn’t directed towards you.
    Evil is prevalent in our world. Jesus is not the prince of the world, setan is. I just recently found this exorcism prayer  to St.Michael that identifies Satan as the seducer of nations. That’s what he does apparently, he seduces every nation but we should be hopeful and know that victory is ours. The correct attitude is to make reparations for the crimes done in the past by the world and the nations we belong to. In every situation no matter how complex and complicated it is, as catholics we should strive to see everything through the lenses of God.

  5. AFlowerofStTherese mat_y 

    It’s all good! 🙂

    I honestly wouldn’t have minded if the comment was directed at me. Although our time exchanging messages here has been short, it’s been long enough to know you are coming from a genuine place and that malice wouldn’t have been your intent. I generally don’t get easily offended anyway.

    In saying that, this statement in the actual context in which you intended to use it, I agree with entirely. Modern politics is definitely anti-gospel across the board. I thank God for Trump’s victory for America because Hilary is possessed by demons! Nevertheless Trump is a short term band-aid solution at best, not a long term one. America, like the rest of the west, needs to return to God (authentically) and her Catholic roots, nothing less will suffice.

    Satan is prince of this fallen world in a manner of speaking. But Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. Satan wasn’t the prince of Catholic Christendom. He did eventually seduce fallen man to turn from Christ and Christendom as the Bible and Catholic doctrine prophesied would eventually happen. Christ warned us of this ahead of time in the same way as He assured us of His and our final victory through Him (and Our Lady who will one day crush the head of Serpent).

    When I say “our”, I mean those of us who can and do remain faithful until the end or at least find soulful repentance before we die e.g. death bed confessors. There is also purgatory for those of us who aren’t yet ready for heaven but don’t warrant hell! 🙂 Final judgment is in God’s hands at day’s end. 

    I too agree that our focus needs to be on penance, intercessory prayer, etc. Vengeance isn’t ours. It’s God’s. We need to hope and pray for the salvation of souls not for their damnation.

    Comments such as this are purely written as a contemplative exercise. It’s healthy to observe the ways in which Satan and his minions attack our life and the Church without falling into victimhood or blame games, if that makes sense.

    Thanks for the chat. I do appreciate your contributions here and thank God we still have Catholics in this world like yourself who are on fire for Our Lord and the Faith.

    God Bless

  6. @Cal most people become doctors because of both the money and because it makes them look good lets be honest XD otherwise there wouldn’t be so much politics in the medical industry.

  7. TheDRSophia 
    DRSophia, 

    Atheists/agnostics aren’t Catholic/Christian so they tend to reject the reality that mans nature is fallen and in need of grace/God.

    Tim’s reference to John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’ was spot on:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8

    This song perfectly encapsulates the utopian ideals westerners have been trying to attain since the French Revolution especially. “All we need is love” (without definition or being grounded in reality/God). Thus far it’s helped bring us The Reign of Terror in France, numerous communist and fascist genocides, two full scale world wars, broken families/homes, uncontrollable government/personal debt, suicide/mental illness, etc.

    Secular utopianism doesn’t work. In many ways I see The Beatles as the founding fathers of this lofty idealism in terms of modern pop-culture. Obviously it goes much deeper than The Beatles when we bring pseudo-sciences/scientists and so called enlightenment philosophers into the equation. These quacks, overtime, infused eastern paganism (e.g. Hindu and Buddhist ideas) with western utopian ideals, and the rot has been setting in ever since.

    Secular utopianism can look heavenly and alluring on the outside in theory. The problem is we find HELL on earth when we step inside Jezebel’s chamber having been seduced by her lies and deceptions! 🙂

    Don’t worry, Tim will be cross-examining Cal soon enough. I just hope Cal’s ready to be put thru a meat grinder (with Catholic love and charity)! hahaha

    God Bless

  8. M-a-t-t AFlowerofStTherese M-a-t-t  Hi:) sister/brother, I appreciate yours too. im always glad to come across catholics who take God seriously or at least strive too. 
    I would rather have Trump be president of the most influential nation in the world than Hillary. Isn’t the world so crazy? Since when was it so offensive on social media to at least defend the life of a frail human being at the most earliest stage of life. Ten years ago, the average person on my side of the world at least understood the dignity of human life. I think were on the same side of the world, but just different continents. I blame western popular culture, the local church, myself, for christians buying into this systemic lie.

    I’m not exactly crazy about Trump either. I  watched some of his rallys before he was elected. The guy is  racist, but at least he is not Obama. Everyone has their flaws. I don’t think he is going to do anything outrageously crazy that’ll hurt innocent illegals/ migrants. Here’s what we need to keep in mind: the cry of the immigrant reaches God’s ears.

  9. AFlowerofStTherese M-a-t-t 
    Trump seems okay to me. I don’t believe he is racist at all. I think he’s about the best America could hope for from a secular president who could possibly be sincerely tending toward traditional Christian values in his later years. America, and the Catholic Church especially, would’ve been existentially threatened under Hilary. The Church is safe under Trump. At worst, he’s brought Americans more time. At best, he’s been anointed by God to achieve great things for His kingdom whilst in office.

    The immigrant issue is a contentious one. The “open immigration” policies of Western nations in modern times is a suicidal one:

    “CC 2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in
    search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find
    in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the
    natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of
    those who receive him.

    Political authorities, for the sake of the common
    good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right
    to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with
    regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption.
    Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and
    spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws
    and to assist in carrying civic burdens.”

    We aren’t placing any conditions upon immigrants at present nor are we properly vetting them. It’s madness.

    See:

    https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/

    &

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCYToFJcCw

    God Bless 🙂

  10. AFlowerofStTherese M-a-t-t 
    P.S. To be fair the West has had a large hand in causing this immigration crises. We unjustly destroyed Iraq’s political and social order in the second Iraq war and then to make matters worse we left too early leaving the nation in chaos. Then there was the West’s actions in places like Libya and Syria where we have trained and funded Islamic radicals to overthrow these governments (it was mission accomplished in Libya some years ago).

    These realities do not escape me.

    What can one really say except that the world, for the most part, has already gone mad?

    I do believe there is a deeper agenda at play and that this refugee crisis has been deliberately manufactured.

    Those who don’t stand for something will fall for anything. Now that we don’t stand for anything in particular in the West anymore, given that we are pagan nations and cultures, we can and do fall for anything.

    God bless you sister.

    Matt

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